Nancy Pelosi’s record of impact is undeniable. Over more than three decades in Congress, the San Francisco juggernaut is frequently cited among the effective legislative operators of her generation — the person who held together the votes for the Affordable Care Act, who twice ascended to the House speaker’s chair, and who built a fundraising machine that reshaped how her party competes.
Last week, at the SXSW conference in Austin, Texas, I spoke with Pelosi about that record. In front of a packed crowd of innovators at the Vox Media Podcast Stage, I asked Pelosi about key moments in her career, her unshakable faith in the American electorate, and the outlook for November’s midterm elections.
Pelosi is preparing to leave Congress at the end of this term, and it comes at a time of profound uncertainty for the Democratic Party. Republicans control the White House. Her party’s polling favorability has reached historic lows, and a once solid liberal majority seems to be fraying on lines of age, race, and class. There’s no consensus about what went wrong or who should lead next.
Regardless, Pelosi told me she has absolute confidence that Democrats will take back the House this year. And it’s hard to argue with such a legendary vote counter. Below is an excerpt of our conversation, edited for length and clarity. There’s much more in the full episode, so listen to Today, Explained wherever you get podcasts, including Apple Podcasts, Pandora, and Spotify.
You’ve been called the most effective speaker in history. I wanted to know, what is the skill or trait that you think made you so effective?
The thing about it is that when you’re a legislator, you have one, shall we say, dynamic at work. You have hearings, you have public comment, you do all those things, and so you have time to make a decision. When you become the speaker or the governor or the mayor or whatever — the executive position — you then have to act.
The reason you have to act is because if you don’t act immediately, people think, “Oh, she’s gonna think about it. And while she does, we’ll take this option away or that option away.” You just have to act. Then you get the reputation that it will work, and that’s that.
It is [also] really important when you go out to do these things to just make sure people trust your judgment — that you know what you’re talking about, you know how to get something done. And I have to give credit to the members who are so courageous to take strong votes, which will be mischaracterized by the other side no matter what you do.
The other thing is nothing really good happens unless you have outside mobilization. Inside maneuver, outside mobilization. And that is like President Lincoln said, “Public sentiment is everything. With it you can accomplish almost anything, without it practically nothing.” But for public sentiment to prevail, people have to know, you have to get out there and engage public sentiment.
Your story is built on faith in the American people and it seems as if that is kind of core. I wanted to kind of gut-check that. You’ve been set to retire in 2016 and 2024, and Americans elected a president that surprised you and many others and kind of forced you back into office.
There’s been some tough moments. I’m thinking about the horrible attack on your husband in 2022 or things like the January 6 riots where you were in the building. How are you retaining this kind of optimism in the American electorate when it doesn’t always seem as if that has been returned to you? I wanna ask about your trust in Americans.
Our founders were such geniuses. They were so remarkable in what they put together, a country that was more remarkable than anything that anybody had ever seen. They believed in the goodness of the American people. And that’s what gives me optimism. I do believe in the inherent goodness of the American people. If they know, in a public sense, if they know what all this means to them, they will make the right judgments.
There’s a lot of evidence of a backlash to Donald Trump as we speak, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that people would prefer Democrats as the other option. How are you so sure that Democrats take back the House and possibly win the Senate in November?
Not only are we gonna win, we’re gonna win substantially.
To win an election, you have to mobilize. You have to own the ground because we know: American people are good. We know that what we want to do is in their interest. They know what their interests are. We respect that.
And by the way, our whole democracy is at stake. Free and fair elections, independent judiciary, due process, rule of law, separation of power. We’re not a monarchy, we’re a democracy. But we save the democracy at the kitchen table. So what we’re talking about in terms of lowering costs, affordability of course, but in people’s terms, lowering cost of health care and groceries and education and whatever it is, it’s what they are telling us they are most voting on. [We need] message, mobilization, and money to get it done.
I think right now there’s a big question about trust in institutions, trust in elected officials. Considering just how much Congress has seemed to step back from its own authority, what do you think is the importance of these midterms? If you’re someone who’s kind of skeptical and says, “Okay, Democrats win the House, but Donald Trump’s gonna do whatever he wants to do.” What is Speaker Pelosi’s response to that?
Well, let me just say, first of all, that Congress hasn’t stepped back. The Republicans in Congress have abdicated — they have abolished the House of Representatives. They have just given the president free rein.
The Senate somewhat too, but they have a little different rules. In the Constitution, the House of Representatives is given very big power. Congress is Article One of the Constitution, but even within that, the House has the power of the purse, to declare war, issues like that that are fundamental to the Constitution. They’ve abdicated.
If Democrats take back the House, last time that you all had the House under a Donald Trump presidency, there were those two impeachments. Is that something you think, if Democrats take back the house this November, we should expect?
The only person responsible for the impeachment of Donald Trump — not once but twice — is Donald Trump. He gave us no choice. So I don’t think you go out and start with saying, “We’re gonna impeach.” Winning is about the people. It’s not about him. It’s about the people, meeting their kitchen-table needs so that they have confidence. And we have to restore that. And the best way to do that is to listen to the people.
You’ve said that Donald Trump is a “vile creature,” but you said that was a euphemism for what you really wanted to say. This is South by Southwest, I was gonna let you end on this note. Do you wanna tell us how you really feel?
If you’re president of the United States, you have a certain responsibility to live up to honoring the vision of our founders. The beauty of the Constitution, the exquisite beauty of the Constitution, is the separation of power. They didn’t want a monarch; they did everything in the Constitution to make sure we didn’t have one. So he’s smashed all of that.
In terms of one of my big issues coming to Congress — saving the planet — forget about that. [He has] his hand in the pocket of the fossil fuel industry. And so we’re taking so many steps away from clean air, clean water.
Be grateful for the sacrifice of our men and women in uniform who have fought for our freedom and other freedom in the world and not call them losers. When you’re at a cemetery for a deceased soldier, honor that.
And then, of course, the aspirations of our children. Forget about that, as far as he’s concerned.
But I didn’t come here to talk about him. He is what he is. We’re gonna win in November. You’re going to see a big change in how the separation of powers works. It’s about honoring the vision of our founders. It’s about ending corruption in this government, and that’s what I think of him.
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